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Vision Of Escaflowne
Kittyhawk and the Chu take over this episode and a lot of passion for the show, both positive and negative, comes to the surface. Things become heated for a moment, but we’re all cool in the end.
This episode may have some of the longest stretches of audio in which neither Ben nor Neil say ANYTHING.
Someone finally silenced BEN? REALLY???? WOW!!! BEST. EPISODE. EVER.
Even Ben knows it is not smart to get in front of two ladies arguing. =]
Better anime than Neon Genesis Evangelion. (Did I say that? Of course.) I actually liked Escaflowne, but that was mostly due to the group I was hanging with at the time. (One of them was the series translator.)
If Ben and Neil want me to contribute to an episode about Evangelion, then I will be on it. But they will know why I hate the original series.
The only Escaflowne I watch was the movie and that bored the death out of me. After hearing the Chu & Kittyhawk talk about it got me interested in the show, I’ll give it a try.
I feel the Mahoromatic ending was ok, at lease she was 18 years ago and wasn’t brainwash into felling in love with him again.
I love G Gundam (it so crazy) I would be glad to help you guys with the episode, but I really shy
I would recommend watching the tv series (and not the movie) for Escaflowne. The series was much better.
As an aside, I do agree with the crew that the dub of Cardcaptors sucked. I watched a few episodes on TV when it was shown in the US, and it positively reeked. Glad that I bought the subbed Card Captor Sakura DVDs.
Oh GOD, G-Gundam. The only Non-Universal Century Gundam series where all them Gun-Damns *ahem* are super robots on crack. Where else can you get an old Kung Fu master piloting a Gundam that RIDES a horse? Haha
If that series was made today, the South Korean Gundam would be dancing Oppa Gundam Style.
Hahaha, Oh God, that reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMTfWsb-jQk
And on the subject of Escaflowne, I do understand what KittyHawk and The Chu are getting at about the show, but what stops me from actually checking it out is the mentions of the Destiny gun and Fate-Changing device thingies. I suspend belief for shows like Gurren Lagann’s galaxy shuriken throws or Kamen Rider Fourze: Cosmic Friendship is Magic, as long as it’s fun and epic or whatnot. Hell, I even suspend belief for shows that made me cringe badly like Fushigi Yuugi or Saiyuki(don’t ask me why I ended up watching them. I don’t know myself. 🙁 )
But a man-made tool, used in ways that Chu described, to manipulate a person’s fate or destiny itself? That’s going WAY too far, even for a shojo series. But even though that ticks me off, that’s just my opinion. I might try in the future to check it out if I ever get past those concepts, maybe to check out the mechas(I’m sorta a mecha fan).
There’s my 2 cents. Stay peachy, people. You’re all fun to listen to 😀
I’d say the episode met my rough expectations. Granted, I’m definitely more on the positive side of this discussion than anything else, since I watched Escaflowne relatively late and still thought it was a good show, but hearing different opinions about the subject was nevertheless interesting enough to keep my attention. The rest would be a matter of arguing over certain details, but I don’t feel that’s necessary right now.
Oh, I’m looking forward to the eventual G Gundam episode too. That should be fun.
First of good episode, second I wonder if Kittyhawk and the Chu could return to discuss other Shoujo series, I particularly would like to suggest “Revolutionary Girl Utena” both the series and the movie, because they are just so weird and (IMHO) amazing, although I wouldn’t recommend watching the movie without watching the series first, if you haven’t already that is.
Oh a G Gundam episode, I have to be on it.
This episode left me ice cold. Nowhere in the program was a reason to discuss this series. You say “Watch it” but all you do is rip on it and say how stupid it is. The gents haven’t seen the show and act embarrassed to be talking about it. I have seen the show and the film. The film is admittedly horrible, but showcases even more inspiring music from Yoko Kanno and is a GIANT step above the series design-wise. If only the TV series had been designed and animated at this level. All of the complaints I hear about the show are basically problems with every anime show EVER. Is there an anime show that has a great ending? I have yet to see one. Acceptable – maybe. Even the pretty much perfect Cowboy Bebop has an ambiguous ending. Does anybody on this podcast actually like anything? I have listened to 11 episodes and have yet to hear a positive review of a show or movie. Every time somebody says a title to a an animated work, somebody follows up with “Oh GOD.” I have no idea why you would devote this much time to a subject just to tear it apart each episode. Don’t apologize for what you like.
I don’t think I need to take criticism from a liar. If you listened to 11 episodes and found all of them negative, then you did some pretty selective listening. You apparently barely listened to this one.
Nope – listened to the whole thing -every word. It got so intense even you gents had to intervene. I’m no liar, and don’t appreciate being called such. I can understand such a reaction to my comment if perhaps you don’t realize how negatively you (sometimes?) treat the shows you podcast about. I am willing to admit it may be coincidence due to the shows I chose to download after I discovered the show a while back (About a month ago) – I am admittedly a relatively new listener, but after listening to the rolled eyeballs for most of the running time of the Escaflowne episode (and the episodes i listened to prior), I felt compelled to write a reaction. Maybe I haven’t picked the episodes where your positive passion shines through yet.
About this particular episode – I was surprised that there was no mention of the fact that the man responsible for creating the series was Shoji Kawamori, the man responsible for many iconic anime (Macross, Aquarion, Arjuna, Macross Plus) and the mechanical design for Pat Labor, the Macross Valkyrie, Transformers: Optimus Prime, Prowl, Bluestreak, Smokescreen, Ratchet, Iron Hide to name a few. I appreciated the mention of Yoko’s score (and Hajime Yatate) and the idea of it’s entertainment value. I was excited that someone had chosen to dedicate the time to recognizing one of the defining anime shows of the 90s.
As for the Animation Aficionados Podcast in general, I was so excited to see the episode titIe list. I was over the moon that there were some folks dedicating clearly a lot of time and effort into recognizing the same passion as mine, with some “great gets:” Flint Dille – it was great to hear from him – I wish you guys hadn’t spent the whole time apologizing for how unprepared you were for the interview – his stories were great!
Though you have often spoke dismissively about the shows in the podcast that I happened to pick, I continued to listen: the AKIRA/GHOST IN THE SHELL hate-fest, the Macross/Robotech podcast – which (I felt) spent more time lambasting the seminal series and its history than appreciating it, The Blade Runner Era – which eschews the crown jewels of that era (Akira & Ghost in the Shell), Batman: Year One, All-Star Superman, Justice League: Doom, Batman: Gotham Knights, Green Lantern: Emerald Knights… Without looking at a list of episodes, it’s hard to complete the list – it’s clear you have affinity for the Bruce Timm DCU TV-verse (as do I) – but maybe not for the Direct-to -video-set. I have looked forward to listening to “Defending Carl Macek.” We clearly have a mutual love for Don Bluth, but even his podcast spent most of the time with what felt like negative reaction.
I don’t expect to change your mind with my comments, and i truly didn’t mean to offend you. Perhaps every poster on the blog should listen to all 113 episodes before posting any comments that involve criticism. Then again, I don’t believe you watched all the episodes of Escaflowne before dedicating a podcast to it. (Not that I think you should.)
Best of luck to you with the podcast. I am glad someone is bringing light to these under-appreciated shows. I know from some comments on the podcast I have heard that you like Dirty Pair – I look forward to listening to those and other shows on works I believe you enjoy.
-J
Okay, I guess I have to spell it out for you..
“I have listened to 11 episodes and have yet to hear a positive review of a show or movie. ”
Those are your words, and it’s a lie. You even listed several shows in your second comment which you know damn well we loved the shows, but you say you’ve yet you’ve yet to hear a positive review?
Look, the reason I called you a liar is that I just skimmed back through the last twenty episodes, and with the exception of two, maybe, I couldn’t find a show I truly remembered hating. I’m sorry, we hated Sonic and Mario cartoons, but that’s because those were shit. The last episode we did, which was about Genndy, couldn’t have been more positive.
Oh, but I guess I muttered under my breath that I didn’t care for Samurai Jack, so that must make it a “negative show.” Derp dee derp derp.
And I don’t know if I’d call Akira/Ghost In The Shell a “hate fest”, but I do feel that they get overly praised when they’re just not as fun to watch as shows that I think get overlooked. And yes, as I said on the show, I’m tired of fun anime like Captain Tylor and Crusher Joe being overlooked for some pretentious, pseudo-philosophical dreck like GITS. Why should we show it appreciation? Because it brought anime more to the mainstream? That doesn’t make it GOOD.
I don’t recall lambasting Robotech, but I do remember explaining why it exists and how the syndication market at the time created a need for the show, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t also say that it’s an anachronism. It IS. The plot of Robotech makes the story of Macross very murky by refocusing the whole show and making the plot more like Dune. When I finally watched Macross, it was like watching a show for the second time in which you could actually understand them, as if the volume hadn’t been turned up the first time.
You know what I get tired of? People on other podcasts that put down anime from the late 80s and early 90s, and they get away with it, because nobody under the age of 25 has ever fucking watched stuff like Venus Wars or Dominion Tank Police, which is the stuff that I remember being fun to watch.
I’m tired of hearing the same opinions over and over. Nobody has ever had the audacity to criticize Akira and Ghost In The Shell, and they SHOULD be criticized, because I think they hold anime back. I don’t think they’re accessible to mainstream audiences today. I’m not denying their place in history, but if I’m going to talk about whether or not they’re entertaining, I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with the masses. I think they’re bad movies.
And this is where we get our reputation for being overly negative, because we take sacred cows and sometimes make hamburgers out of them.
I’m sick and tired of the “you guys are always negative” comment, because it’s fucking bullshit. And you know it is, because when I called you on your comment, suddenly you had an encyclopedic knowledge of the shows we loved.
What the fuck?
And yeah, we sometimes blow over things that we should have addressed, but this is not a “reviews show”, nor is it a retrospective show, though we have done those. This is a round-table show, which means that whatever makes the cut is the show.
If I wanted to do an in-depth retrospective, I wouldn’t be doing this in a weekly or bi-weekly format. It’s an insane amount of dedication that I just don’t have time for. But on the other hand, I never said I was going to do that, and neither did Ben. I’m tried of taking criticism for shit that we never intended to do in the first place.
And yeah, we were nervous about the Flint Dille show. But what was that, like two years ago? We’ve done better interviews than that since then, including Marv Wolfman, which was a much better interview.
Look, if you’re going to criticize us for our performance on the show, then at least give us credit for the stuff we did right. Otherwise, your comment reeks with irony for being overly negative.
Mr. Neil,
I apologize for my comment on the Flint Dille interview – You got to meet a childhood idol (mine, too!) and I don’t want to sully that amazing experience with unnecessary criticism. Uncool.
It is just ridiculous at this point to even address the accusation of lying. Clearly I have touched a nerve. I am guessing this type of thing has happened to you in the past? That you have been criticized for this type of thing before? And it pressed your buttons. Sure. I can only assume this is why you feel the need to attack me personally and invent conspiracy theories. But you have lumped me in with the wrong crowd.
My initial post was certainly guilty of some passionate hyperbole (in regards to the negative reviews) born from frustration. You have certainly spoken well of certain properties – they just weren’t the shows I tuned in to hear you talk about. I share many of your same 80s anime affections. (Dominion, the original Bubblegum Crisis, Dirty Pair) Our local video didn’t carry anime until the mid 90s, so I bought most the Animeigo, USRenditions and Streamline VHS releases as they came out at the local comic shop. I have also criticized Akira and Ghost in the Shell for being overrated and slow-moving. But I found the tone in that particular discussion (and a lot of the others) so dismissive that it was oft-putting to me. I have given you guys 15 hours of listening time. I was extremely frustrated after listening the Escaflowne podcast – frustrated enough to look up your blog and try and understand what it is you are actually trying to do. I didn’t sample your library chronologically. I selected the shows I was most excited to hear people talk about. Maybe if, as I mentioned before, I listened to a larger chunk of your library and not consecutively, I would hear a difference.
But if, as you say, other people are complaining about this – then perhaps you just don’t realize how you guys come across sometimes.
After the vitriol of my initial post, I have tried to respond courteously and transparently. Perhaps I should have voiced my frustration elsewhere, rather than on the blog. You guys are clearly working hard – for free – you don’t need someone coming into the house and getting the rug dirty. It was not my aim to piss anyone off or get into a fight. I certainly don’t want to dictate how you should run your program or place my expectations of what your content should be as podcast law. You have a great rapport and produced a remarkable number of episodes and that in itself speaks to a love for the subject matter. Perhaps the format or tone is simply not for me.
Best wishes.
All I’m going to say is that when someone says that we’re negative all the time, right after I post maybe six or seven extremely positive shows in a row, I have a hard time taking that sort of criticism seriously. Maybe I should have phrased it that way.
Just to give you an idea of why I get upset about this, there’s this perception that I don’t like Robotech. If I make a disparaging remark about a show, sometimes it means that I’m only disappointed in tha aspect of the show. And that’s how it is with Robotech. I don’t HATE Robotech. I just think some of the things they did to it make it hard to follow, and lacking the need for a large syndication number these days, I think Macross is the better choice.
It seems that the criticism of shows that people grew up with is what gets us in the most trouble. Just as a casual observation, the shows that get us labeled as “negative reviewers” most often are Ghost In the Shell/Akira, Teen Titans, Naruto, and the 90s Marvel stuff. Other than that stuff, I can’t even remember having a lot of negativity on the show. After nearly 120 regular episodes, those are the only ones that really get us our reputation for negativity, even though they only account for a small fraction of the archive.
Just to give you an idea of where I’m coming form, the late 80s and early 90s comprise the era that I find most unappealing, and I’ll admit, I come down pretty negatively on a lot of shows from that era. And a lot of it has to do with the mentality in the industry that was developed over the decade prior. As animation production moved more overseas, American animation was still trenched in this idea that artists and writers were two distinct job sets, and the result was that a lot of the cartoons that were sent to Japan and Korea came back looking like crap. There was really no one stateside that could speak on the same level to the animators in Asia, until the animators finally started taking over as head writers and producers. And then you started to see good shows like Animaniacs, Batman TAS, and Ren & Stimpy, because they could adapt to the inherent styles of the overseas studios. But there was still a lot of garbage being made at the same time by people still trying to do it the old way.
And by that, I mean X-Men and Spider-Man.
We get teased by Blanchard a lot, because he thinks we don’t like X-Men and Spider-Man, which is not true. We love these properties. But Ben and I also feel that the 90s renditions of these cartoons are poor representations. But Blanchard isn’t the only one who’s like that. Those were the very earliest episodes, and I’m STILL hearing about them today.
“Oh, you guys don’t like anything.”
It’s just mystifying to me what people will extrapolate from what we say.